tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-63535302771376344.post4178180788178180393..comments2023-06-25T06:07:14.706-05:00Comments on O-L-I [Opinionated Layman's Input]: Rocking the Boat - Part 2 Why Do We Worship?Tim Laitinenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07659772910035894952noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-63535302771376344.post-59989095668526628552010-01-26T13:16:45.541-06:002010-01-26T13:16:45.541-06:00P.P.S. I don't think Bible churches & Pres...P.P.S. I don't think Bible churches & Presbyterian churches believe that differently about predestination. One of our churches was described to us as "4.5-point Calvinist," but I'm actually not sure what the last half-point was! (Probably the same one I'd stumble over, though.)Alison again!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-63535302771376344.post-55294035184451702892010-01-26T12:39:06.643-06:002010-01-26T12:39:06.643-06:00P.S. When I said I thought the seeker-sensitive pa...P.S. When I said I thought the seeker-sensitive paradigm is dead, I didn't mean that churches weren't still doing it. Way too many are still trying desperately to be "relevant" when nothing from today's world is any more "relevant" than the word of God written centuries ago. (As I said elsewhere recently, I think a 2-month in-depth study on Nahum or Habakkuk is just as relevant as the flashy sermon series some churches try to pull unchurched people in with.) But I don't think the seeker thing works and, except for the "emergent" folks who seem to be going even further in the other direction, I think the tide has turned.<br /><br />I also don't want to touch your argument about rock music in general. To me, saying that classical music is clearly more inherently worthy than contemporary music is like saying that a trapezoid is clearly more inherently worthy than a rhombus. I don't know where to start with that, nor do I care to. I've also never bought the argument that the origin of something necessarily negates or affirms our use of it today. For instance, to the likely annoyance of many in the church, I think that whatever the founding fathers of the country intended may not have any bearing on how the country chooses to do things today, and probably doesn't even need to come into the conversation. So, this is probably as much as I'll say on that subject!Alison D.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-63535302771376344.post-91157124482810698342010-01-26T11:54:18.889-06:002010-01-26T11:54:18.889-06:00FYI, I would not consider PBC a "seeker"...FYI, I would not consider PBC a "seeker" church at all anymore. I wouldn't be there if it was. The sermons are God-centered, not people-centered, and challenge you to die to self. Anyone scared of that message would be running for the door. I think the "seeker-sensitive" paradigm is dead for the most part and even Willow Creek has rejected it. The church is still flashier than I'm sure you would like and also than I would like, but even some of that is likely a holdover from the past.<br /><br />Music to me is a non-issue at the moment. I don't think any church has music similar to what they worshipped with in Bible times (I doubt David was dragging either a pipe organ or a drum kit around the desert), nor similar to how we will probably worship in Heaven. I think we should mainly just be thankful to have a place we are free to worship at all, and not worry about whether the style pleases "us." <br /><br />Now, since I do have a choice, I prefer a mix of contemporary and traditional music. I love many old hymns, loved the organ concert I once heard at Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, and can and do absolutely worship God with the splendor of His holiness through contemporary music! I even rather liked the music at an Episcopal church I visited in Austin which was likely to play things like early American hymns or Renaissance music, though I've never heard another church like that. But the #1 consideration for me is whether the church teaches truth and how strongly they teach it, though of course they must also have love and strong community. That is, do they love God with their hearts, souls, and minds, and do they love their neighbors as themselves? <br /><br />We didn't really expect to return to PBC, partly because we were frustrated with the whole seeker thing in the past and partly because some things about the church put us off even now, but they were all non-essential issues, and as I told Mark, every time we went there, I felt like someone was holding an oxygen mask up to my face so I could breathe and live again, so I couldn't pull myself away! <br /><br />The attitude I find hardest to justify is that of some people I've known that if they can't find a place to worship exactly the way they want, they just won't worship at all. (Or they'll stay home and watch church on TV, which does nothing to serve the body of Christ.) I certainly don't believe worship only takes place within a corporate worship service--our whole lives should be worship--but when I've seen people leave the church, I've also seen them drift from God. I have probably been guilty of that to a degree in the past, because I've spent up to 2 years looking for a church when I now believe it's more important to be involved in a church at all than to find the one that pleases you most, even if that means I have to suck it up and go somewhere that sings old-time gospel meeting type songs (which I have rejected a church for before!). <br /><br />There is an African chuch meeting on the PBC campus now, and all they asked for (and were turned down for by 8 or 9 other churches) was any tiny little space they could meet, even if it was the outside lawn! The music would be their own, mainly provided with their own voices. That sure puts things into perspective for me! When we have that attitude, that all we need is any place to gather, God's truth, and the worshipful spirit we bring with us, I think that's what honors God. Trappings like majestic chuch buildings, stages, organs and violins, or guitars and pianos can be helpful, but they sure aren't necessary.Alison D.noreply@blogger.com